September 6, 2016

Construction Begins on Seaside Greenway II

The second phase of this project on Point Grey Road gets underway this week as city crews prepare to expand sidewalks, install benches and public fountains. Plus sewer and water upgrades.
Presumably, there will be some opposition to this.

pgr-ii

Point Grey Road at the end of Phase I, June 2014.

Local news coverage HERE.  City overview on Seaside Greenway Phase II HERE. Broader overview of the Seaside Greenway HERE.

Excerpt of City overview: 

Phase 2:

  • Improvements to walking conditions, public realm, expanded green space and connections to waterfront parks along Point Grey Road
  • Construction to be coordinated with sewer replacement
  • Seaside Greenway Completion:  Completes a critical 2 km gap in the Seaside Greenway, running from the Vancouver Convention Centre to Spanish Banks.

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  1. “NPA councillor Melissa De Genova, who opposed the motion, argues it doesn’t make sense for the city to spend money on a wealthy neighbourhood that wasn’t clamouring for the improvements.
    “It’s about priorities. When we look at our budget and how we’re spending our money…we’re forcing it upon residents who don’t want [this project], and instead the city has rammed this through.” she said.
    De Genova said some residents are worried about mature trees that will be torn down during construction of the sidewalk.”
    Fact check:
    Just because some (how many, exactly?!) north side residents don’t want this doesn’t mean there aren’t many more who do. I know many who welcome it, especially people in the blocks south of Pt. Grey Rd., including many families and renters who can’t afford professional signs expressing their views.
    And it’s not for residents in any case. It’s for non-residents who want easy, safe, convenient access along the route. They are many.
    The city is protecting the biggest mature trees, diverting the sidewalk around them.

    1. Very odd that you would make the claim that you do not know how many opposed Phase 2 when you attended the Council Meeting where Petitions were presented to Council that showed exactly how many: 90% of the residents opposed Phase 2 as a waste of money, a misrepresentation of design by City Engineers, an unsafe design, and redundant infrastructure with the removal of 28 mature trees and all landscaping on City land that has been maintained by homeowners for 75 years at their own expense. To this day, they are still protesting against it.

      1. It was evaluated as safe by a department of Transportation engineers, though. The design follows accepted practice. The sight line evaluation done by your privately hired engineer didn’t look at the street, or the traffic flows, just at the driveways, according to the review presented at Council.

        1. We can get so caught up with the veracity of one engineer over another when, in fact, it’s just plain for anyone to see that when you back your car out of a sloping driveway without a flat area to allow you to stop and survey pedestrian traffic, you risk running into one of them. You just do not have the sight lines until your car is level and not below grade as you back up.
          Why do they have sloping driveways? Because the city mandated that their parking be underground.
          Is there a real risk a pedestrian could be run over? Well, judging by the use of the sidewalk on most days, actually pretty unlikely because it is really not very used. However the proponents of the work say it will be a very a very popular and busy route, so if we go with that, the risk is real. It just doesn’t take an engineering degree to see what is so obvious to anyone who has looked at the situation.

        2. David: The driver education recommendation would be to back in to those driveways (you get a clear view when you pull up) and then drive out, with better visibility. Seems pretty straightforward. The drivers would also have the advantage of driving up the ramps, instead of backing up them.

    1. If one were to conduct a survey, I would predict that most people would be in favour of this project. There are very few people in this city who would oppose sidewalk improvements – especially if it is also an improvement to our magnificent Seaside Greenway. The only remaining major gap will be the one in Kits Beach Park.

      1. If one were to conduct a survey, most people wouldn’t even know or care about it. I know we live in this blog world where it’s all very important and generates lots of noise, but it’s important to keep it context. Most people don’t care about sidewalk projects in other neighbourhoods.
        I know I love discussing all these urban issues and I don’t really care about this sidewalk lol.

      2. If one were to conduct a survey, the result would be ??
        Nobody knows unless such a survey is done. Eric doesn’t know “the pulse of the people”, nor do I. The city does surveys on various topics to find out “the pulse” ( Talk Vancouver).

    2. If you watch today’s coverage of Point Grey Road residents’ opposition to the project in today’s rally, clearly the City does not have the pulse of the people, or simply does not care about it, to be precise.

        1. One’s perception of public opinion is clearly biased by the gang you hang with. Here at Price Tags, it seems that this project is very popular. Most I know do not, but when I stand on PGR and ask people who pass by about it, most, not all, but most are flummoxed by the notion that millions need to be spent on anything to improve it. I have specifically spoken to joggers and cyclists. I have seen a group of cyclists ride by shouting to stop the waste. This is still by no means scientific, but clearly there is no consensus or assumption that “very few oppose this”.

  2. The Province:
    “Residents of Point Grey Road already upset with Vancouver’s seawall project are concerned they could be on the hook for $80,000 per household for an optional improvement to widen the sidewalk.
    Vancouver is doubling the width of the sidewalk to three metres as part of a $6.4-million project to complete the 28-kilometre seawall around the city. “

    1. That charge of $80k or so per property is an estimate to put the power lines underground and remove the power poles. The City didn’t intend to do that since it isn’t required for the sidewalk improvements. Local residents have asked the City to do it anyway, at their expense, for benefits to property values among other things. It came up at the council meeting, where several presenters requested this work be done. Thing is, they have to agree, it is all or none. You can’t put every second power pole underground.
      South side residents would get improved views at no charge, presumably. North side residents who have joined together several lots would pay a multiple. Should be interesting to watch how the residents come to a consensus on this.

  3. My #1 wish for Point Grey road would be to have it repaved to eliminate the roughness and bumps. After that I think I’d want to get rid of the temporary look of the traffic diverters. A few curbs and some grass would make it look finished at a fraction of the cost of Phase II.
    Then all we need is to have the pedestrians, dog owners, slow rollers, joggers, cyclists and motor vehicle operators look out for each other and yield the right of way once in a while.
    We all make mistakes. I try to be predictable on the road by taking the right of way when it’s clearly mine. If there is any doubt, however, I’m quick to let “the other guy” go first to avoid an incident. I acknowledge every driver who stops for me when I’m walking or cycling and I often wave cars through intersections if I’ve already stopped. But the other day I did something stupid and got yelled at by a guy on a bike for giving cyclists a bad name. I was surprised and a little hurt because I had tried to correct my mistake by stopping to let everyone else go ahead of me, but I had stopped in a bad spot and deserved the flak.
    I seem to post here a lot about cycling related issues, but in reality cycling is my least frequent way of getting around. I wish it was at least #3, but I’m overweight, a weather wimp and I live on a hill. The thought of having to peddle back up to get home often stops me from getting the bike out of the garage in the first place.

  4. With a 0.35% millrate and an average $10M house the average property tax is around $35,000/house on that street water side and half that on the south side of the road.
    With that new quieter street every house went up AT LEAST 10%, so each home owner made $1M, on average, tax free (or $500,000 on south side). I don’t get what all the fuss is about. They get free money, paid for by the tax payer. What is not to like, as the house owner. With the new improvement it’ll go up another 10%.
    Now as a tax payer one has to wonder if this is money well spent and if perhaps 1/100th of that spent on paint would have sufficed, including if taking down dozens of years of lush landscaping growth is appropriate. Not exactly so “green” as the city likes to depict itself, rather wasteful actually. But, using 100 houses on each side times $10M+5M = $1.5B in property value in a few blocks times 0.35% , $5M annually in property taxes is being collected. While $6.4M seems high in light of the property taxes collected – that will also increase -it seems adequate.
    It’ll be beautiful once done.

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