Streetcars: The Missing Link? brings together decisions makers, academics and community leaders to explore, discuss and debate the potential role of streetcars as a critical link within the transportation system and the idea of bring streetcars back to Vancouver.
September 29, 2010
Renaissance Vancouver Hotel Harbourside, Vancouver, BC
Program: 8:30 am – 5:15 pm
Reception: 5:30 pm – 6:30 pm
The Olympic Line – Vancouver’s 2010 Streetcar demonstration project held during the Vancouver Winter Olympic Games – saw urban streetcars return to Vancouver for the first time in almost half a century. The project proved extremely popular and has ignited the idea of reinvesting in streetcars as part of a broader sustainable transportation system for the City of Vancouver and the entire Metro Vancouver region.
Seeing as Susan Anton has made the establishment of a streetcar system part of her campaign for the Vancouver mayoralty, it prompts me to wonder what was the outcome of the Septbember 29 2010 forum on streetcars in Vancouver.
Furthermore, I found the discussions and reports in the Vancouver Sun about senior CoV staffs’ response to a question at Council about susan anton’s streetcar initiative to be off-the-mark and provocative. instead of seeing her initiative as a good start on getting some better transit in vancouver, possibly a chance to embarass Translink and MetroVancouver Planning on their slowness in this realm, and to fall back on old tropes about transit being a provincial responsibility and it being too expensive for the CoV to tackle.
When one thinks about the costs of delays due to congestion, and the large amounts of tax revenue that a city like vancouver can bring in, and the fact that the streetcar would be amortized over many years, I do not think that a cost of $100 million looks that huge any more.
Also, I am guessing that the CoV is not as constrained as is the province and MetroVan when it comes to reaping real estate profits associated with transit intrastructure. the lands that the city owns on either side of the olympic village would presumably be worth a lot more for development once the streetcar is there on first avenue, whizzing by all the time. the short term cost overruns on the oly village will also seem like ancient history at that point.
If Surrey can be considering a streetcar line to connect surrey city centre with guildford, then it is certainly past time for vancouver to do so. Come on, get on with it!
By the way, I suspect that the reason that susan anton et al have not suggested that the downtown streetcar system could be the first part of a larger system that would go west to UBC and east to VCC and maybe the PNE is because they don’t want to rustle too many feathers in one go. come on, people, let’s see some “Vision”!
Well, Gordon, you have not posted anything about the City of Vancouver’s position on a Broadway subway line yet, and I wanted to be the first to comment.
I see that you do not have a Broadway/UBC rapid transit category, so maybe I can start one with this post. I did not know where else to put it, so I posted it under “the missing link”.
Regarding today’s Vancouver Sun story on the City of Vancouver Transportation Department’s position on a Broadway subway line:
(Originally posted on VancouverSun.com (facebook page) on Wednesday, November 27, 2012 by Adam Fitch)
The major flaw in the CoV Transportation Department’s recommendation to CoV Council (and in the presentation to Council, is that it evaluates only the BROADWAY CORRIDOR. Of course streetcar and light rail are going to compare badly to subway in terms of capacity and speed. West Broadway is already so congested.
The most appropriate solution, with due consideration for costs, transit priorities (e.e: Surrey, etc) and timeframe (10 years from now to build the subway, minimum) is to build streetcar or light rail along the CPR corridor, the Arbutus corridor, and West 16th Avenue.
This would upset those who currently live along 16th, of course, and they will oppose it, but let’s get realistic. If a subway WERE to be constructed along Broadway, there would be a massive increase in traffic along Broadway for a several year period, during construction (see the effect on Granville, Main, Oak Streets, etc. when Cambie street was closed). Some of those who switch to 16th during construction will never go back to Broadway/10th Ave afterwards.
For a streetcar or LRT along West 16th, it could dip into short cut and cover tunnels at major intersections, as does the Skytrain between Victoria Drive and Rupert (approximately), and as do portions of the Calgary and Edmonton LRTs.
Such a route/technology option would be FAR less expensive to build than a Subway LRT (elel Skytrain), and could be built in a much shorter timeframe.
If anyone thinks that a Broadway Subway can be built for $3 Billion, they are dreaming. Look at the cost and disruption of the Canada Line construction. The only congested part of that line (in Vancouver) was the northernmost portion, from King Edward to Downtown – a few kilometers. By comparison, the congested and difficult part of the Broadway line will be practically the whole thing – many kilometers – from VCC to the UBC Gates.
To say that if a Broadway subway is constructed with a tunnel boring machine, it will have little disruption on Broadway during construction, is absolutely untrue and misleading.
Tunnelled subways require MASSIVE excavations from the surface, for stations, electrical substations, track switches, ventilation systems, emergency exits, etc. I can guarantee you that if a subway is built along Broadway, even using a TBM, the street will be significantly disrupted (read: closed) for several years, at least.
I fully realize that the position that CoV staff (and hence, the City) are taking is a negotiating tactic – ask for the moon, in hopes of getting something less), but can’t we be more mature than that, these days?
For goodness sake, Translink and the Province are crying so poor right now that they cannot even afford to finish off a bus rapid transit facility that is almost finished (the 156th street transit exchange in Surrey), and I am sure the same applies to numerous other projects, programs and initiatives.
So why ask for a $3 Billion project (read: $5 Billion) when there is NO chance of such happening in the near future. It is just rude and/or deluded.
The City of Vancouver’s position looks even more rude and deluded when compared to the City of Surrey’s position, asking for streetcar/LRT. Good for Diane Watts.
The major flaw in the CoV Transportation Department’s recommendation to CoV Council (and in the presentation to Council, is that it evaluates only the BROADWAY CORRIDOR. Of course streetcar and light rail are going to compare badly to subway in terms of capacity and speed. West Broadway is already so congested.
The most appropriate solution, with due consideration for costs, transit priorities (e.e: Surrey, etc) and timeframe (10 years from now to build the subway, minimum) is to build streetcar or light rail along the CPR corridor, the Arbutus corridor, and West 16th Avenue.
This would upset those who currently live along 16th, of course, and they will oppose it, but let’s get realistic. If a subway WERE to be constructed along Broadway, there would be a massive increase in traffic along Broadway for a several year period, during construction (see the effect on Granville, Main, Oak Streets, etc. when Cambie street was closed). Some of those who switch to 16th during construction will never go back to Broadway/10th Ave afterwards.
For a streetcar or LRT along West 16th, it could dip into short cut and cover tunnels at major intersections, as does the Skytrain between Victoria Drive and Rupert (approximately), and as do portions of the Calgary and Edmonton LRTs.
Such a route/technology option would be FAR less expensive to build than a Subway LRT (elel Skytrain), and could be built in a much shorter timeframe.
If anyone thinks that a Broadway Subway can be built for $3 Billion, they are dreaming. Look at the cost and disruption of the Canada Line construction. The only congested part of that line (in Vancouver) was the northernmost portion, from King Edward to Downtown – a few kilometers. By comparison, the congested and difficult part of the Broadway line will be practically the whole thing – many kilometers – from VCC to the UBC Gates.
To say that if a Broadway subway is constructed with a tunnel boring machine, it will have little disruption on Broadway during construction, is absolutely untrue and misleading.
Tunnelled subways require MASSIVE excavations from the surface, for stations, electrical substations, track switches, ventilation systems, emergency exits, etc. I can guarantee you that if a subway is built along Broadway, even using a TBM, the street will be significantly disrupted (read: closed) for several years, at least.
I fully realize that the position that CoV staff (and hence, the City) are taking is a negotiating tactic – ask for the moon, in hopes of getting something less), but can’t we be more mature than that, these days?
For goodness sake, Translink and the Province are crying so poor right now that they cannot even afford to finish off a bus rapid transit facility that is almost finished (the 156th street transit exchange in Surrey), and I am sure the same applies to numerous other projects, programs and initiatives.
So why ask for a $3 Billion project (read: $5 Billion) when there is NO chance of such happening in the near future. It is just rude and/or deluded.
The City of Vancouver’s position looks even more rude and deluded when compared to the City of Surrey’s position, asking for streetcar/LRT. Good for Diane Watts.